(no subject)

[nfotxn]

It really pisses me off when people insinuate that because of my age I've somehow go nothing to contribute. That I'm just some punk kid trying to hang out with the big bears. To that I'd like to rebutt that your age is just a number mutually exclusive to your wisdom and accumulated knowledge. I can't count how many times I've got condescending attitude not because I've acted like a kid but because I told them a number. Yes, I'm very young and I know I've got tons to learn and a bunch of emotional growth to do. But I'd like to think I'm pretty far above the status-quo for most gay men my age (yeah, I know that says a whole lot ;P) and worth at least a little consideration. I'm pretty sure I'm preaching to the choir right now and I'm sure that minds that are already made aren't going to be changed by my asking so but this is something that bugs me and I don't think is going to go away any time soon. I really wish I had the guts to just say "Fuck you, I don't need your attitude. It stinks." but my moral fiber isn't quite that strong :P

I really ought to lie and just say I'm 25. I could pass for it easily. But that's not my style. If I were into lying to friends and family I'd still be in the closet.

Comments

[zekebehr.livejournal.com]

From someone who is only 10 years older then you and came out young in life, you have to realize that most bears aren't our age. Most of them are in the mid 30's to early 40's, haven't come out as early as we have and they do realize that you do have alot of things to do.

Honestly alot of guys are afraid of someone your age wanting them as a "daddy" to raise as a kid and to mooch stuff off of. I have a friend who's 28 and he's dating someone that is 52 and have been together for almost 2 years now. However, they have nothing in commmon as far as goals in their life. The 28 year old wants to travel, see the world, etc. The 52 year old already has and really just wants to settle down.

Age is an important factor in a relationship. You can say all you want that it doesn't matter, but honestly it does.

My best advice to you, finish school, go to college, work your ass off getting through and then worry about a relationship. Honestly, the best thing I ever did for myself was when I came out said that I wouldn't date a man until I was done with college. Its what got me through. Trust me, it sucked, but honestly I don't think I could have made it through college if I hadn't done that.

btw, lying is just as bad. What if you meet someone and then it gets serious and he find out you started out lying in a relationship. Just a bad way to start either a friendship or a relationship out.

arg

[ex-braxton253.livejournal.com]

It's no different here Brodie. In fact, the young people don't mater to the old queens unless they want to sleep with us. The gay community needs a revolution of social behaviours. In Tornoto there's the village, in Montreal there's the village, but most of it is porn stores and bars. We need more social activities, groups etc, and until we make those changes ourselves, you can bet they won't come. Everyone's too wasted to do them.

Re: arg

[nfotxn.livejournal.com]

I think you're right, although not quite so much in that extreme. I think being a the sub-culture of a minority there's always going to be a great need for social activities and groups. The internet has brought together minorities like nothing else really and therefore is improving things. For instance here in Toronto the gxb group is really taking off thanks to YahooGroups™ for collaboration.

The real catch-22 for younger guys who like bears is reagardless of looks you're really only going to get used as a trick by the older men who tend to embody traits we find attractive more readily. There are exceptions definitely but I think in my experience inter-generational relationships are very hard to pull off. Like zekebear said that people at different ages are all at different stages in their lives and value different things. Right now I definitly value my freedom and independence. Older men tend to value safety and continuity. A sense of stability. Which of course is appealing but I think it's only natural as a young man to explore the other side of living before desiring that. At least, in my experience.

Re: arg

[ex-braxton253.livejournal.com]

I agree with you my dear however it's not even just the bears. I'm talking about the youth in general. There's a lot of young gay guys and girls but it's been apparent that we don't have a say in the community unless the words are "let's go for a drink". If this is indeed a community, it needs to be one that functions in a sense of unity instead of factionalism and attitude. There has to be more than bars, thankfully the internet has provided that. Without it I wouldn't have made a lot of friends like you, nor would I have met my older relationship with Dave. But still, we need a place to meet, all of us, for social gatherings, workshops, sport and dramatic activities etc. This is where all of the young people have to come in and say "This is what we want with our lives."

speculation...

[dancubca.livejournal.com]

Why not try to see each person as a fresh and new individual and save the judgements for when the red flags *actually* come up? Isn't that what you'd prefer all these older guys to do with you?

Re: arg

[cub4bear.livejournal.com]

in Tornoto there's the village, in Montreal there's the village, but most of it is porn stores and bars.

For Toronto at least, that statement is demonstrably false.

[darthcub.livejournal.com]

Brodie...you have know idea how much I hear where you're coming from man. I've been hanging around the bear since I was like 18-19 and for a while I did lie about my age. I got tired of that real quick. My experience has basically mimicked yours and honestly...at 24...it's pretty much the same as what you're talking about. I meet folx and they find out my age...usually the first words out of their mouth is..."Oh...you're just a baby..." That grates on me to know end. Please save your consdecention for someone else...thanx. In the group I'm involved in here...I'm the youngest one. By a lot...the closest other person to my age is 31.

Honestly...I've thought of leaving a number of times...because while I like most of the people there...I just don't fit in a lot. In large part due to the age gap. The're discussing buying homes and shit...I'm talking about the phat club I went to last weekend. The're talking about 401K's and I'm talking about Cartoon network. And like you said...I don't particulary find that I'm a standard specimen of gay men my age, but gods damn...it can be rough sometimes.

People make a lot of assumptions based on someone's age. It's kinda interesting to watch sometimes. But like Zeke said we're part of a different generation than the majority of guys in the Bear community. We've grown up in a different world than they did. We're also at different point in your lives. A lot of them have been there, done that...blah blah blah. Hoever, that also doesn't necessarilly account for any level of wisdom or experience.

My question is...where are the younger members of the bear community hiding? Lord knows I never meet any of them around here...I meet plenty online, but the're all scattered like leaved in a hurricane.

I guess the point of this rant is...while we are young, we don't deserve that crap. The question becomes what do you do...do you bow out and look for an alternative or do you continue and find some way to work within the situation?

(''')Cub Hugz(''')

-Grizz

[t-ross.livejournal.com]

How old are you? *curious*

[nfotxn.livejournal.com]

I'm 19 years old. I was born February 7^th 1982.

[kj.livejournal.com]

No shit?

I was thinking you were at least a few years older.

Damn, I'm starting to feel old now, that takes alot. ;)

[t-ross.livejournal.com]

Huh. I would not have guessed that. I would have guessed early 20 something. *meant in a complimentary sense-not an insulting way*

To be honest with you, I think there is always going to be someone that thinks he/she knows more than you. It is a pain in the ass. But i agree with your basic point-that each person should be assesses based on who and what they are, not their chronological age.

*hugs*

[nfotxn.livejournal.com]

Thank you! I'm glad you agree. Ultimately I think the people worth knowing won't judge people based on a number.

*hugs*

[cub4bear.livejournal.com]

Ultimately I think the people worth knowing won't judge people based on a number.

Exactly! So don't worry about them!

[bigrock.livejournal.com]

I posted a message to the newsgroups once and this bear from Boston replied to it. Basically he said that my answer was wrong and that a good student like me should know better. I was like "What the fuck, and who the fuck do you think you are?" He doesn't know anything about me and i graduated 6 months ago. What a shmuck.

[ucla-bruin.livejournal.com]

As someone who is within the same age range as you, I absolutely know and understand the situations you are referring to. This day in age, people are so stereotypical of "youth" simply because of the things some of "us" do. Rather than seeing us as individuals they see us immature hoodlums who speak before they think.

In reference to the gay community, I feel this is more evident because of the one-sided views some people have towards others. I myself am only 18 years old. The fact that I am 18 years old and a second year at UCLA says a lot, but to many out there I am still some unexperienced dumb kid trying to hang out with the "big boys". I myself have young and "adult" friends, all of which I enjoy speaking to and socializing with. Age really is not a factor with me and it is unfortunate that it is with some people.

Don't let stuff like that get you down.

[brucelloyd.livejournal.com]

Ten years from now you'll be bitching because some 19 year old turned you down for being too old.

Get over yourself.

Honestly, I want to know.

[nfotxn.livejournal.com]

Do you honestly think I'm conceited? Or are you just trying to stir shit up?

[brucelloyd.livejournal.com]

Yes and yes.

[cub4bear.livejournal.com]

I don't think anyone who really knows Brodie would say that he's conceited.

[brucelloyd.livejournal.com]

I don't think I care.

[haenck.livejournal.com]

I don't think nfotxn is conceited.

But, I think grizz416 has a point.

Age is double-edged sword. You think people don't take you seriously. Well, 37 is no picnic, either. At 37, I do not have enough gray hair for Daddy credentials, but enough of the stench of age and decay to send the 25-34's [hell, 34 to 45's] running to their Buffy tapes to remind themselves that they are still young.

Too much looking for archetypes, not enough interacting with individuals. I think that the gay community is worse in this regard, than say, society as a whole, but I don't want to start a flamefest saying something like that...

[dancubca.livejournal.com]

*applauds*

[nfotxn.livejournal.com]

Hey, thanks a lot for the perspective. I guess every age poses it's challenges. The goal must be to learn accordingly and become a wise individual I suppose.

Man, that sounds like a message from the chuch of later day saints. Yikes!

the nail and the head

[oni1111.livejournal.com]

i couldn't agree more.... the major reason why i left the Motor City Bears was not only liberal racism, but the rampant age-ist unspoken policy that seemed to be in effect// it was almost like we were just supposed to "look good and be fucked" or something...// no one even looked at us when there was a vote on the floor// and the double whammy of being black seemed to only make it worse// all the oreo comments and the "i never had sex with a black guy" whispering in the dark was just too much...// and i am 25... so don't think that it goes away when you get older// i won't go into a huge diatribe here... but the bear scene needs to seriously look @ what it's becoming...//

Re: the nail and the head

[nfotxn.livejournal.com]

You ought to read this if you haven't already.

I honestly have to say until I had sex with a black man I was really only tolerant on a surface level. A lot of people who are perfectly well behaved and decent to people of different race show completely different attitudes when it comes to being at all romantic or sexual. But that is a whole new can of worms.

Re: the nail and the head

[notofthisworld.livejournal.com]

What it's becomming? How do you know it hasn't always been this fucked?

I'll post my own diatribe about the bear community sometime.

Re: the nail and the head

[oni1111.livejournal.com]

i think it may have been, but since we don't speak up.. no one else does either... kinda like coming out of the closet, so to speak...

Re: the nail and the head

[kj.livejournal.com]

Well, the first problem I could see was with "vote on the floor."

Bear clubs should not have such things. Aiee!

Re: the nail and the head

[sultmhoor.livejournal.com]

tiny??

Re: the nail and the head

[oni1111.livejournal.com]

yep...that be me....

Re: the nail and the head

[sultmhoor.livejournal.com]

j00 never call, j00 never email... [;o)

(This is Kevin B., btw)

Re: the nail and the head

[oni1111.livejournal.com]

i know who this is... that was why i responded, how are you?... if you wanna email me check out my profile and e-mail me.... i'l call you or something.... especially since i think i live down the street from you...... >;-)