If you smoke marijuana: YOU WILL GO INSANE!!

[nfotxn]

Had a dandy evening with Martin, Paul, Aaron, Brendan and Becky.. We all piled in to Paul's (zer0ith) pimp-mobile and went down to the Cup. Sat around like the yuppie larva we are discussing pop culture, chemistry (both Becky and Aaron are Chem Eng students), bud, beer and sex. All the while in the car I sat at Aaron's notebook with Native Instruments: Traktor™ mixing tracks and generally goofing off. Then rented "Grass", which was a bit of pro-weed propaganda. A really poignant film actually that points out historically the only reason marijuana has been illegal has been because of the religious right and racial discrimination towards Mexicans. Not because of empirical evidence that it's harmful to people physiologically or psychologically. But like we all don't know that ;) Everything in moderation. That's what it's all about.

Played some Twisted Metal Black and just generally chilled. It's great to see everyone for the holidays again.

Comments

[kj.livejournal.com]

I'll presume you've seen Reefer Madness at least once? The NORML chapter at my college showed that once, I went. Funny, funny stuff.

[cpratt.livejournal.com]

Moderation's the key. I've been (mis)fortunate to have known my brother my entire life, from before he started smoking pot every single day to the present, when his brain seems like it's permanently only accessible by taking a minute off to go look for it in another (dusty) corner of a distant room. It's not pretty.

[notofthisworld.livejournal.com]

I've known about three people who have gone distinctly vague after maybe just a couple years of daily use. I knew another guy for whom it probably aggravated his schizophrenia.

I'm not a fan.

[nfotxn.livejournal.com]

I agree, I've known a few people since grade school who became chronics in highschool. They used to be really intelligent, articulate and socially apt people. Now they all live in dumpy appartments making minimum wage barely able to support their habbit and so perma-fried that they really don't have much of a future even if they were able to kick the habbit.

I think for those reasons I'm glad it's illegal. Some people have the disposition to become real pot losers. Maybe it's not the weed, but I'm sure it doesn't help. There's still a vast majority of people who burn responsibly only for recreational purposes on an infrequent basis. I'm part of this group although I haven't lit up in nearly two months. And I don't think pot will be part of my adult life.

[cub4bear.livejournal.com]

I agree, I've known a few people since grade school who became chronics in highschool. They used to be really intelligent, articulate and socially apt people. Now they all live in dumpy appartments making minimum wage barely able to support their habbit and so perma-fried that they really don't have much of a future even if they were able to kick the habbit.

I think for those reasons I'm glad it's illegal.

By that token, alcohol should be illegal because there are alcoholics who abuse it.

[nfotxn.livejournal.com]

Good point, but I don't think it's quite as simple as that. I don't have figures, but alcohol and tobacco use (lets cover all the bases) are of course far greater. The actual effect of legalizing pot would likely only compound the detriment to lives. That likely isn't for certain, but my guess would be that the initial change would be pretty vast. Perhaps I'm better expressed if I say I'm glad that there's a fair mode of stasis about the recreational substances world (booze, smokes and weed in my books) these days. You can get weed if you want it and you're not too likely to get caught unless you're an idiot in your dealings. People understand that it doesn't make you insane, worship satan (and his sodomite followers in hollywood ;)), a murderer or a loser (in moderation). But that doesn't mean that there needs to be a new industry of misery opened up, because that's what alcohol and tobacco are really. I think the phrase here is "open cultural dependance". The good of weed doesn't out-weigh the bad to make it openly socially acceptable.

[cub4bear.livejournal.com]

The actual effect of legalizing pot would likely only compound the detriment to lives.

Yes -- for some people.

But that doesn't mean that there needs to be a new industry of misery opened up, because that's what alcohol and tobacco are really.

Then I would think the right approach would be to legalize pot, but regulate it heavily -- for example, ban advertising of it (as with tobacco) and only have drugs such as tobacco, alcohol, and pot available only at places like the LCBO. That way, adults can choose to use it responsibly, and the possibility that minors can access it is reduced.

Better to get drugs that are produced in a regulated environment and sold only by LCBO-type outlets than get drugs of unknown origin on the street from (possibly) unscrupulous dealers.

This way, responsible adults aren't penalized because of the actions of a few.

an answer

[oni1111.livejournal.com]

ok... so we leagalize and tax the shit out of it.... legalizing adds the money that it cost to regulate the drugs to the GDP and we use that money to build re-hab clinics that market as agressivley as any advertisment agency.... it's not just drugs that kill the people... it's the mis-information and lack of education that helps to create the enviorment... it's like this "we wont teach about it beause you shouldn't be doing it" dogmatism// if so many people want to do it, it's senseless for our government to persecute it's own people for it; it is a democracy after all (ha!)//

[notofthisworld.livejournal.com]

That doesn't explain why marijuana is illegal in places other than the United States.

I think if you want to see the origin of the modern world's laws regarding drugs, you have to look at the Opium Wars, through which China lost Hong Kong to Britain about a hundred years ago. Short version: Britain flooded the Chinese market with cheap opium. After the population was mostly hooked, Britain jacked up the prices considerably. China was in big trouble. Britain made them sign over Hong Kong for 100 years as payment. Opium had become a weapon of war.

After that, you can bet China made opium use amongst its citizens illegal, as did Britain and the rest of the world. Even today, most countries spend lots of money to prevent foreign narcotics entering their territory.

I could have the details wrong, but that's the gist of it.

Of course, I'm not saying marijuana is as addictive as opium, but that's where the law comes from.

But I don't even think social taboos against drug use come from that. I think the social taboos exist because most people, especially in poorer communites, know someone (or know someone who knows someone) who has ruined their family or been a bad parent because of drug use. And marijuana counts there. I'd guess the social taboos probably pre-date the law by a great deal.

why hemp is illegal

[oni1111.livejournal.com]

DuPont// marijuana is illegal because of Dupont and it's lobbying powers// they petitoned the government to make it illegal because it would destroy the lumber industry and DuPont owned the patent for their newly developed chemical paper bleach process// the government used the power of propaganda to build an racist anti- mexican campaign, hence the name "marijuana"// it's real name is of course cannabis, or hemp// all textbook shit..// wow i hate this country//....

Re: why hemp is illegal

[notofthisworld.livejournal.com]

And why was the traditionally anti-protectionist American government so eager to protect Dupont? And again, why is it illegal in countries which don't have a prejudice against Mexicans?

But hey, don't let me stand in the way of a popular conspiracy theory.

Re: why hemp is illegal

[nfotxn.livejournal.com]

I have no idea about this DuPoint situation but this theory does have validity. Remember that a lot of other countires look to the American judicial system for inspiration and also share the same racial prejudices (at the time). I'd suggest you see the movie and the profiles on the people who started the DEA. All fundamental christians who were also prohibitionists who were motivated by religious zeal to have people conform to their beliefs. I know you're not a fan of weed, and it's not a big part of my life either, but it is a freedom issue. Maybe a little moot at this point, but good people did receive harsh sentences for harming no one. Not even themselves. Not that I think the law is wrong now, it just has been in the past. Although it's hard to record history without bias perhaps then the bias was a little too in favor of the other political polarization?

Re: why hemp is illegal

[notofthisworld.livejournal.com]

I have no idea about this DuPoint situation but this theory does have validity.

I don't know what theory you mean.

I know that anti-Mexican and other racial prejudices were exploited for certain campaigns against marijuana use. (Marijuana was portrayed as a date-rape drug used to take advantage of white girls.) But I don't think that's precisely why marijuana is illegal.

Remember that a lot of other countires look to the American judicial system for inspiration

Okay, now you've lost me.

but it is a freedom issue

*rolls eyes*

Oh, someone call Amnesty International right away.

Re: why hemp is illegal

[oni1111.livejournal.com]

i must admit that it is a small pet-peev of mine when people are quick to label things conspiracy theories// since history is told from the perspectives of the cultures that dominate...it too is as much conspiritorial as any theory i may suggest// it is no secret that our culture re-writes history to suit our needs... if i'm wrong, prove it...// no offense... but i have noticed an air of conceit with your opinon// i don't know you and i'd like to chat with you some time// DuPont is a major reason why hemp is illegal... no big shock that big busines and the government are in bed together.. i'm saying that the method that our goverment uses to classify hemp, as a class one drug in some states is flawed..// the criteria for being a class one drug is to have "no medicinal value, and have the high potential for abuse"// which is strange because hemp posesses high medicinal property and has no physical addiction, where as things like alcohol and tobacco aren't....// land of the free for whom?

Re: why hemp is illegal

[notofthisworld.livejournal.com]

And it's a pet peeve of mine when people are gullible enough to believe anything proposed by a group of loons with a dubious political agenda.

You're suggesting that a small number of people (Dupont, and someone in the U.S. government), working for their own gain, collaborated in secret to deceive and manipulate the public. That's a conspiracy.

It's a different phenomenon from "victors writing history", which is where one of a number of views becomes dominant over time.

You're probably right about that "class one" stuff, but I'm not that interested in discussing drug policy, especially a foreign country's drug policies.

I'm comfortable enough with the drug policies of my two countries, Australia and Canada.

Re: why hemp is illegal

[oni1111.livejournal.com]

ummm yeah... this is my last post on this issue...// this is silly... the phenmomenon of "to the victors go the spoils" of history is not really seperate, since americans have short memories and the attention span of poodles on quaaludes...almost every person @ my work thinks hemp is illegal because it's "BAD"... so i think that address the issue of a belief becoming dominant over time... the omission of history is as much a revision as an out right lie...// i wont argue about this topic anymore, due to the fact that i welcome a challenge to my beliefs, but this has ventured on the brink of a flame war... and since i don't give a fuck whether you think i'm gullible or a conspiracy theorist, it matters not// and since i live in this new rome, i'm interested in disscussing the topic because it means something to me... it's a small piece of a much bigger paradox... i don't argue in facets, i argue in context to the bigger picture...because i'm personally a little tired of the conspicous consumption and sickening materialism of my countrymen... gay and straight black and white... my quest is only the truth...so i leave this discussion the way it started... as an opinon//

Re: why hemp is illegal

[cub4bear.livejournal.com]

Brodie said:

but it is a freedom issue

To which Ted replied

*rolls eyes*

Oh, someone call Amnesty International right away.

Why do you dismiss this argument? Surely it's not as grave an issue as torture, etc., but don't you think on principle that people should have the right to do drugs if they choose? (Keep in mind that it's not a choice between total prohibition, as it is now, and complete laissez-faire. See my other post to Brodie.)

[haenck.livejournal.com]

I, personally, think I would benefit from a little THC.