Standards !@#!ing work sometimes.

[nfotxn]

I'd just like to express my undying love for CSS that works correctly. Nested <div> tags with relative inline positioning measures work soooo well, with a little scripting on the server that proprietary bitch PDF ain't got NOTHIN' on HTML. Ya girl, you don't look at me that way or I'll have PERL bust a cap in yaw ass. Mmmhmm *z-snap*

Oh christ, I am a flaming nerd. I love it.

Comments

[cub4bear.livejournal.com]

PDF isn't proprietary. It's a fully published specification. (http://partners.adobe.com/asn/developer/acrosdk/docs/PDFRef.pdf)

[nfotxn.livejournal.com]

Ok, true. But it's contolled by Adobe and that whole Skylarov case did't thrill me.

'Sides, who makes websites in PDF?

[cub4bear.livejournal.com]

and that whole Skylarov case did't thrill me.

Um.... OK, but that's not really relevant to the question of whether PDF is a published standard.

'Sides, who makes websites in PDF?

Nobody... so why do you claim that PDF "ain't got nothing" on HTML? Apples and oranges. PDF and HTML are meant for two different things.

[notofthisworld.livejournal.com]

I agree. You just can't compare PDF and HTML. HTML encodes content with no regard for presentation, while PDF encodes presentation with no regard for content.

The appearance of an HTML document (even with CSS) depends on the rendering device (for character widths, line breaks, etc.), while PDF is device-independent.

And PDF is hella complex, so I think it's good that Adobe is looking after it. HTML and CSS isn't tricky, yet it's taken years to get where it is because of all the politics involved.

Oh god, why am I writing this?

[notofthisworld.livejournal.com]

I only wrote that because I just came home from work, and my head was still in programmer space.

Way too left-brain. Missing bigger picture.

[nfotxn.livejournal.com]

Everything you said was true, although CSS2 does have support for character spacing (not exactly ligature or kerning here) and various fairly advanced typographical features. As for software that properly renders either HTML or PDF on a variety of devices.. well, I don't think that really exsists. This would be due to the fact that the only devices worth rendering rich documents on at all are, well, personal computers.

Now a palm device with 8x times the resolution of current moels and colour, that would be fantastic. Then these technologies would be at all useful. You could be rendering content that could actually live up to and surpass it's printed ancestors.

But that's a good half decade off, at least.

Wow, looks at those segues fly!!

It's true, it's apples and oranges, it's just I see HTML becoming just as good an oragne as it is an apple. If not better.

[cub4bear.livejournal.com]

This would be due to the fact that the only devices worth rendering rich documents on at all are, well, personal computers.

Not printers?

You could be rendering content that could actually live up to and surpass it's printed ancestors.

PDF is the de facto standard for prepress work. Chances are a lot of what you read in print is sent to the service bureau in PDF.

It's true, it's apples and oranges, it's just I see HTML becoming just as good an oragne as it is an apple. If not better.

It won't happen because the goals of HTML and PDF are so different. HTML is intended to produce small files for viewing over the net with some rudimentary facilities for layout and multimedia. PDF is intended to reproduce a document precisely the same no matter where it's printed. The two will never meet.

[notofthisworld.livejournal.com]

I think you need to go learn a bit about PDF. A PDF really does look the same on different devices.

PDF is based on some impressive technology, like multiple-master fonts, and sophisticated path descriptions. It's a programmatic mathematical description of how the document should look, written in a stack-based, Forth-like language.

You know PostScript? PDF is basically PostScript with some extra packaging.

We're not talking about crappy Microsoft Word here; we're talking about professional-quality typesetting and layout.

Anyway, this is just an FYI.

Long Live the Nerds!

[hylandr.livejournal.com]

I like CSS. There are some really nice advantages to it. That and PHP and MySQL stuff. Gee, I'm such a geek sometimes. ;)

[abbazabba.livejournal.com]

When you start arranging your life in Warnier-Orr notation, then you're a geek.

What I should have said:

[notofthisworld.livejournal.com]

Yep, I'm thrilled when standards work too. (Especially when they make my page layout look great with minimal effort!)

But PDF allows you to control things like tracking, kerning, and leading. As a typography-geek, you should appreciate that too.

Re: What I should have said:

[nfotxn.livejournal.com]

Oh, I do. I'm just not found of adobe, that's what it comes down to.