Precision Image Calculation

interesting way of putting it. i'd have to agree for the most part, i think people rely too much on others to validate them. I mean it's great to be wanted etc., but the person you are around the most is yourself, and if you can't find your own self to be satisfactory, then how can you be happy?

there are so many books, magazines, tapes, videos, therapists, and tv specials that try and help us define who we are, but do they really help? Or confuse us further by putting the possibility of another doubt into our minds, and with these images of beauty and suggested living, can we look at our own lives and be satisfied? i don't know, maybe i'm just rambling and need sleep.

But as an example of eye being in the beholder, i have been asked many times what kind of person i am attracted to, and the answer is never the twinky lithe bodied perfectly sculpted men who accessorize their beauty like maneuquins in a display case, unwavering, placid and frighteningly trying too hard to be perfect. And when i reply what kind of guys i do like, i often am looked at strange or laughed at. I like bears, what can i say, i like my men hairy, bulky and for me thats damn fine, lol. So where am i going with this? who knows, but they say that theres someone for everyone, and if someone doesn't think you are attractive, fuck 'em. plain and simple. if someone doesn't think you are hot shit for who you are, who needs 'em. Why should you have to change to play yourself for someone else. it just doesn't make sense.

ok well, i think i've rambled enough, lol, this is me hiding in a corner now :)

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hylandr.livejournal.com

You're a handsome guy. It's easier to have a good view and a "fuck the few that don't like me" attitude when you've got other options. Yes, everyone is somewhat in control of their self-image, but constant negative input on your image makes it hard to have a good self-image. I try to keep as good a self image as I can, but when I'm ignored or even avoided at bars (I've had people look at me and then push through a crowd instead of taking an open path past me.) or even being told that I'm too ugly to date, it's hard to keep up the positivity. All I'm trying to say is that it's not as easy or as clear cut for everyone as you try to make it seem

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actually, i don't get hit on that much. And i used to be the biggest loser in the world back in grade school... and in some ways i still kind of am, but i hide it better:P. And no offense or anything, but you become in complete control of your self esteem. If you let people affect you that much, that you can't love yourself because of what someone else thinks of you, then you are giving other people way too much power over you.

I used to let people crush me with the way they viewed me, i would run home sobbing almost on a day to day basis, both in grade school and when i first started coming out. (btw, never wear stripes and plaid to west hollywood, even if your doing it on purpose as an experiment for fun. Drunken queens are really cruel!). But i realized that there really was no point to it. If someone avoids you in a crowd do you really want to associate with them to begin with? If someone thinks they are better than you then they are pretty deluded, not to mention conceded.

but i guess everyone might need to figure that out for themselves, i'm just speaking from exprience because i used to freak out over things like that, until i realized i could be doing better things with my life. after i stopped blaming other people for my unhappiness was when i finally started to appreiciate the people who did love me, but then again this is just my opinion, i could be completely wrong.....

dear god, i sound like a freakin' self help tape. i need to stop. now. if i ever do this again please slap me. bleh.

oh btw, if anyone wants to know, the new Hayden album Skyscraper National Park, is really amazing, just don't listen to it while your depressed, baaaaad idea, lol. Oh and since you have a sequencer, i thought you might be interested in this little band i discovered. "The Octopus Project" is this strange amalgam of synthesized sounds and rock-ish type beats, there aren't any vocals, their songs are like weird melodic ambient compositions, that are strangely reminiscent (i think i completely butchered that word) of Brian Eno. Yeah, so check them out, tell me what you think. enough enough, i stop now.

-jpp

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jwall.livejournal.com

"(btw, never wear stripes and plaid to west hollywood, even if your doing it on purpose as an experiment for fun. Drunken queens are really cruel!)."
*Anyone* with good taste would be cruel in that instance.

"If someone thinks they are better than you then they are pretty deluded, not to mention conceded."
No, I think I'm far better than tons of people. Seriously, there are PLENTY of people you can look down on without being conceited. Like Coretta Scott King.

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Well as for the stripes and plaid, i was quite aware, and have been told several times by friends, that it is a fashion faux-pas. It was a kind of little experiment me and my friends decided to try out to test the level of superficiality in west hollywood. our point was proven quite thoroughly.

it was fun to watch the barely standing twinks and drunken queens try to slur/spit out insults at us. lol.

-jp

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nfotxn.livejournal.com

Regarding all of the above, good on ya. Life is too short to get caught up on how pretty you are.

Hayden is fantastic, a local actually. The album is actually about a year old now. I'm gonna look into The Octopus Project, thanks!

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FWIW I'd like to give you some positive input: IMO you look handsome in the pictures on your website.

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hylandr.livejournal.com

Thanks. I just wish I could find someone who met me in person and still thought so.

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timsimms.livejournal.com

Well said...

And I have to agree with you on everything too. The bear community started off as a movement to empower men that didn't necessarily conform to the gay community's standard of what a gay man should look like or how he should act. It was slowly evolved, for both the better and the worse in many ways.

For the better, it is a lot more inclusive now, accepting those who do not necessarily meet the traditional definition of 'bear'. You can go to most bear-functions and find a everything from your standard woofy bear. bulk, hair and all....to your circuit twink queen.

On the reverse side of the coin, the movement has become what a lot of other movements have--a front and an excuse for being social & hooking up rather than meeting new friends and the such. I actually picked up an issue of American Bear recently that had an article all about this, so you're not alone in your thinking by far.

And on a side note, I also totally agree with the self esteem issue. If you don't love yourself inside and out, how can you expect someone else to? It's as simple as that.

Sorry for the rambling...its 5:30am here and I am getting used to working an early morning shift again :) It has a tendancy to make me rather random and introspective...

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Beauty aesthetic ... [is] harsh Darwinism at work curating the gene pool

Well, except that, you know. I ain't likely gonna be breeding :)

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I agree with most of what you say. However, the bear community has a higher ratio of bitter queens (even more than the mainstream gay/twink culture) that are quick to tear someone down as soon as that person is unavailable to hear their lastest 'woe is me' story. I feel a lot of it is their attempts to feel better about themselves when they are the ones who are truly sad and lonely because of this behavior.
But, like you, there are those who rise above this and realize that it is what you do and what you accomplish that defines who you are and the desire to be with and associate with you.
Well spoken, my handsome Canadian friend. Well spoken.

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jwall.livejournal.com

"However, the bear community has a higher ratio of bitter queens (even more than the mainstream gay/twink culture)...

Whatever.

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Thanks for proving the point.

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jwall.livejournal.com

In apology for this disrespectful lack of effort on my part, I’ll construct something more compelling.

”However, the bear community has a higher ratio of bitter queens (even more than the mainstream gay/twink culture)…
Bears are fags just like twinks. Bears are just as mainstream as twinks in all significant regards. Bear culture is essentially twink culture with different body image ideals. Bear culture has refined and perfected the idea of Perfect Bear to a level of total artifice that is complete, insubstantial gloss lacking any realistically-imperfect features (http://www.livejournal.com/talkread.bml?journal=oakthorne&itemid=56501&thread=170421#t170421).

So let’s pretend bears are unique special snowflakes in the fag play world. You still make a sweeping generalization without any sources and offer it as a statistic (a ratio, even) and even then omit any actual numbers, exact or approximated (a defining characteristic of a ratio). To counter-argue, I have to assume what you have made is an actual point, in which case you have at least some support. This means that evidence and fact are totally arbitrary, allowing anything to apply to everything (and therefore apply to nothing). Either way your “point” still has a deathtrap credit rating.

” Thanks for proving the point.”
No point was ever made, so what did I prove? (now I’m being obtuse).
You’re suggesting that by association I count as a member of the incestuous little bear community. Although the fact I can do things like run, spell, and go all day without saying “woof” excludes me from beardom, it’s still a really insulting accusation.

”it is what you do and what you accomplish that defines who you are.”
…NOT what fag playhouse you live in. Funny how you can take a stand and knock it back down in the same breath. Still, it’s completely true.

Feel free to blacklist me from TBR

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t8r.livejournal.com

Your inexhaustible supply of venom is truly breathtaking.

I give you an A in forensics, and misanthropy!

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I am truly impressed. Anyone who can see through bullshit *and* hates people as much as I do is cool in my books. Not that being cool in my books necessarily means anything.

Now where were you when I was ripping Loganbeary to shreds? (http://www.livejournal.com/talkread.bml?journal=loganbeary&itemid=42408)

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the bear community has a higher ratio of bitter queens

Have you ever been around a bunch o drunk drag queens? :)

But more seriously... It could also be a question of what one thinks of as bitter. Kvetching & complaining doesn't really bother me, but I know it drives some folks nuts - that's how I got the "bitter" part of my nick. But when I think about bitter, to me it's the people who are negative about everything all the time, and try to drag each other down, stop good things happening. People who don't seem to believe in anything, or be willing to act to make things better.

I think they are everywhere, it just happens that I am most often exposed to them in my own little circle of experience, so sometimes I'm inclined to think the bitterest queens are art queens... but if I stop to think about it I know that no group has the monopoly, I've run into them in every group I've encountered.

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Have you ever been around a bunch o drunk drag queens? :)

Yup and I have never laughed so hard in my life. OMG, the dish they were serving. *g*

But more seriously... It could also be a question of what one thinks of as bitter. Kvetching & complaining doesn't really bother me, but I know it drives some folks nuts - that's how I got the "bitter" part of my nick. But when I think about bitter, to me it's the people who are negative about everything all the time, and try to drag each other down, stop good things happening. People who don't seem to believe in anything, or be willing to act to make things better.

This is the bitter I am referencing. I was not clear about that in my first post, based on the other "intelligent" reply I received. I do not mind the complaints and general bitching. But when they start pulling out the saucers of milk when someone walks away and act like nothing has happened when they get back? That, I can do without. This is the point I was going on from Brodie's original post and that he, in a round about way, commented on. If you do not like my looks, fine. There is no need for you to point it out to everyone in the group. Maybe some of the people in the group happen to like it and you have just insulted them as well. We see a lot of this type of attitude in Dallas and this is what has turned me off to most Bear groups and Bear runs. However, I will say that attending Bear events outside of Dallas are quiet pleasant and rewarding. I have made a good number of friends that I can call friends.

PS: love the screenname. I have a lawn gnome yard sprinkler. *g*

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Can you believe it, I can't find a real honest-to-goodness plaster lawn gnome ANYwhere in Toronto?

The Dallas thing is just weird, I have to admit I don't get it. Even outside the BML I frequently hear people complaining about it. I guess sometimes things just turn sour from the word go and there's no easy way to remedy it.

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Brodie says:
you can't blame a community that is, and don't kid yourselves, primarily about sex for being unsupportive about your self-esteem issues

You say:
However, the bear community has a higher ratio of bitter queens (even more than the mainstream gay/twink culture) that are quick to tear someone down as soon as that person is unavailable to hear their lastest 'woe is me' story.

Unless I'm totally misinterpreting what you've written, you've missed Brodie's point,

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I understand Brodie's point. I was merely pointing out one of the aspects of the Bear community, especially in Dallas, that makes it difficult sometimes to be accepting of your physical appearances. My point should have left out the "unavailable to hear their lastest (latest) 'woe is me' story." and ended with "gone.". Sorry for the confusion. I forgot to drink my coffee this morning. *g*
I guess I should relate from my past for clarification.
When I finally came out in '96, I was 270#, obese and depressed. I have seen guys that are 270 and care it really well because they workout or have a solid build. But it felt like 70 pounds of my 270 was at my waist. Anyway, going to the bear bars to meet people was no fun since I got comments as I was walking by about having a salad or being rolled in the flour to find the wet spot. Just imagine what a self-esteem building experience those nights at the bars were. So, I finally go my act together, did some research, started watching what I ate, started walking and lost 50# over a year. Going out to the bars was interesting because the same people that were making the horrible comments a year earlier were no hitting on me. What was it that made these people decide that I now deserved attention? physical appearance. They were not interested in who I am, what I like to read or what music I enjoy. It came down to physical appearance.
Since then, I rarely go out to the bars because it is such a negative place to be. Feel free to talk to anyone on LJ from Dallas. I am sure they will have a similar experiences to relate.

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I was merely pointing out one of the aspects of the Bear community, especially in Dallas, that makes it difficult sometimes to be accepting of your physical appearances.

Bears are no different from twinks, even though they like to think they are. I don't think they're any worse; they're just a different kind of snob. Whereas a twink might not want to have anything to do with anyone outside the 130-180 pound range, most bears don't want to have anything to do with anyone outside the 180-230 pound range. Shift the acceptable weight range up and add some chest hair. Same thing. It's neither worse nor better. People are assholes regardless of whether they're smooth chested or not.

Feel free to talk to anyone on LJ from Dallas. I am sure they will have a similar experiences to relate.

I've already had the misfortune to experience the Livejournal loser contingent from Dallas. I'll pass.

Muscle bears must die, by the way.

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However, the bear community has a higher ratio of bitter queens (even more than the mainstream gay/twink culture) that are quick to tear someone down as soon as that person is unavailable to hear their lastest 'woe is me' story.

People say this. I always wonder where they get this from.

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first hand experience living in Dallas. *g*

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nfotxn.livejournal.com

Thanks, I'm glad you enjoyed what I had to say. As for bitter queens, I dunno if anybody has the precise qualitative data. I don't think it matters.

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five0xpres.livejournal.com

Well said.

btw, URHOT! :P

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