Catholicism, Christianity in Light of World Youth Day in Toronto

[nfotxn]

I'm not a hating person. I really try to give people a chance, to understand what motivates them before resorting to hate. But my experiences in the past with Catholicism have taught me that these are not spiritually enlightened people. It's an institution of dogma and control over women and children. Here's my background to help you understand.

When my Mom was still living with my Step-Dad Gary it was pretty much expected that our faith would be converted from United Protestant to Roman Catholic. Mom had a discussion with Aaron and asked if we'd like to go to Christ the King, a giant monolith Catholic church. A very impressive building to be sure.

During our time attending mass there even at the age of seven I could tell that something wasn't.. fair. The expectation for me to take first communion was huge. I was made to feel by the clergy that if I didn't I wouldn't be seen in the eyes of god and that if I didn't do it soon I'd be somehow cast into a lower rank in his eyes. These were my honest impressions as a child at the time.

Additonally it came to my attention that in order for my Mom to be confirmed in the congregation she was expected to annul her marriage to my father. Now, thankfully, Mom is a strong woman. She wasn't going make the holy matrimony which created her two children ineffectual to her relationship with god.

Needless to say we stopped attending that church and in following years returned to Binkley United where my Mom went since she was a kid. I mean, I'm not a huge church guy. To me it's more like community philosophy class on Sunday mornings. We used to study Nietzsche and Descartes and relate it to the bible in Sunday school, we had a very cool Philosophy student at Mac teaching us. I don't think that would have ever happened at a Catholic Church, or at least Christ the King.

So those are my experiences with the Catholic and United Churches. And ya know, on basic principal I don't really mind World Youth Day. People coming together to share their faith for the betterment of humanity.

For instance Cardinal Francis Arinze accused gays and lesbians of haing "contracted disease because they offended against chastity." That in Old Testament times "the Earth would have opened and swallowed them without a trace." but in New Testament times "people do that sort of abomination and nothing happens to them immediately."

Let's take this appart, shall we? Old Testament book of Leviticus Chapter 18, verse 22:

Thou shalt not lie with man-kind as with womankind; it is abomination.

But come on, everybody knows Leviticus is pretty archaic. If you look at the rest of the verses from Chapter 18 you see that it's not really about who or who you can't have sex with. It's more about breeding I think. There's a lot more time devoted to explaining what won't make inbred freak babies and keep the peace amongst people. Don't sleep with your sister, aunt, brother's wife, goat etc. In context to the early Israelites these were some really handy rules for a people looking to most effectively sustain communities and grow in numbers. And also there's some really fucked up stuff Leviticus says about sacraficing beasts and sprinkling the blood, burning prostitues, killing woman if a beast humps her unwillingly (anyone been in a barnyard before?) or shunning woman who marry outside of Christianity. It's not hard to shoot down the validity of Leviticus.

Now Cardinal Francis Arinze says in New Testament times people aren't so quickly punished by god. This is because we're not a bunch of animal organ groping, blood smearing and woman burning savages. If he's referring to AIDS as retribution from god as punishment for offending chastity I'd direct his attention to the third world, namely Africa, where 24.5 million sub-saharan Africans (many of them likely Christians) are dying of AIDS having not all "offended chastity". I'd argue that the majority are likely rape victims, AIDS babies, drug users and people living in sub-standard living conditions without access to quality healthcare if at all. Out of the estimated 900 000 AIDS infectees in North America only 16% are gay men.

Anyhow, I think I've mused long enough about the wrongs of certain individuals in Christianity. But I find it offensive when a city in my country is invaded with bigots spreading hatred. Or worse, when perfectly constitutional protest is denied. Handing out Condoms on the streets of TO any other day of the year would be totally par for course.

Resources

• Cub4blog
  • Gay365.com - Cardinal Attacks Gays & People With AIDS
  • The Toronto Star Online - Pro-life pilgrims picket clinic
  • cbc news - Toronto police stop Catholic protester
• CNN.com - AIDS:Africa in Peril
• Centre for Disease Control - Division of HIV/AIDS Prevention Statistics

Comments

[jwall.livejournal.com]

Jesus Christ, I can't believe you still consider any of this interesting enough to be bothersome. Are there really any new angles left to discover?

[nfotxn.livejournal.com]

I'm aware that it's pretty tired but I wanted to compile a strong arguement considering WYD is happening right now in TO. It's not about discovering new things, it's about recording my feelings in my journal.

[mooch.livejournal.com]

Considering that I have a Jesus-freak brother, I know that Leviticus is a bunch of crap. I remember reading one article that compared the number of references to homosexuality to those on mildew. Guess which one is more prevalent?

However, it's not just Leviticus that contains some freaky-deaky condemnations of down-and-dirty homo lovin... The New Testament is also frought with them, especially 1 Corinthians 6:9-10...

Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind; Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

And this is in the New Testament... So even if you can shoot down Leviticus, it's still there in the New Testament...

Personally, I just think it's a homophobic letter written several thousand years ago... Fuck Christianity.

[notofthisworld.livejournal.com]

Yes, but don't those Catholics throw a good party? They seem to have some impressive entertainers, and the feel-good vibe certainly seems quite infectious.

But still, becoming a Catholic is a bit too high of a cover charge.

[mathan.livejournal.com]

I believe I said to david365 yesterday was that most churches (no matter what denomination) likes people to sit down at the pew, listen to the priest tell people how to live their life, and start living it that way.

In my case, I know how to live my life, I don't need to sit at a mind numbing ceremony on Sunday to tell me how to live.

[beardoc.livejournal.com]

Actually, I'll take an alternative view here.

I think it's easy to write off Catholicism as a single entity with common beliefs that are whacked, but that's being a little simplistic. The "big C" Catholic Church might appear to be, but the reality is the the Church is an incredibly diverse and evolving organisation. It's a matter of perspective, really - I just wish I could show you a series that was produced for Australian television called Brides of Christ which was nominally about women in the Church in the 1950s, but the struggles and the varying opinions and the tensions that exist within the church because there are those different core values around are still true today.

[cub4bear.livejournal.com]

The "big C" Catholic Church might appear to be, but the reality is the the Church is an incredibly diverse and evolving organisation.

People who disagree with certain teachings yet still support the "big C" Catholic Church condone its disgusting behaviour with their silence.

Slapstick crucifixion comedy explosion!

[jwall.livejournal.com]

"People who disagree with certain teachings yet still support the "big C" Catholic Church condone its disgusting behaviour with their silence."

I don't have enough hate to go around. Until inquisitors pull out my fingernails or bisect me from scrotum to chin with a tree saw for coveting my neighbor's wife's cutlery set, I'll save my foul mouth for more overt enemies, like the homeless and Meg Ryan.

I'm genuinely hard-pressed to think of an enemy less relevant, ineffectual, and downright boring enemy than the Catholic church. A 2,000 year-old, totally anachronistic and estranged from reality organization dedicated to the procurement of young boys for old men has little influence on my personal life.

Re: Slapstick crucifixion comedy explosion!

[cub4bear.livejournal.com]

I'm genuinely hard-pressed to think of an enemy less relevant, ineffectual, and downright boring enemy than the Catholic church. A 2,000 year-old, totally anachronistic and estranged from reality organization dedicated to the procurement of young boys for old men has little influence on my personal life.

People listen to their clap-trap.

Because of the influence of the Catholic church and Christianity in general there are millions of people in my country who think I don't deserve human and civil rights. Because politicians pander to these bigots, my rights are denied.

Boring? Maybe. Ineffectual and irrevelant? No. As long as Catholics, and Christian bigots more generally, have the influence they do, they're still an enemy.

Jesus, Joseph, and Mary in a gender-bending drag show you won't believe!

[jwall.livejournal.com]

Religion is a magnet for stupid (insecure, frightened) people. It coddles them and gives them an excuse/reason to feel smart in that they've made the best choices, secure in the idea that they are a special magic snowflake that will go to a happy pretty perfect playhouse when they die, and be no longer frightened of the horrible, unreasoning, indifferent, obliviating darkness and uncertainty of life by hiding it behind cheap wine, stale wafers, and some half-naked dead guy nailed to a piece of wood.

But my beef isn't with religion -- it's all the stupid people who see it as permission to interact with me with the intent of changing my lifestyle.

Burn the ignorant, not just their house.

Re: Jesus, Joseph, and Mary in a gender-bending drag show you won't believe!

[cub4bear.livejournal.com]

Burn the ignorant, not just their house.

If you just burn the ignorant, you might miss some. Burn their house and you'll be sure to catch them all!

[notofthisworld.livejournal.com]

Because politicians pander to these bigots, my rights are denied.

Oh, come on. You live in Ontario. Our courts and Constitution don't allow politicians to pander to bigots.

You can get married, adopt kids, get spousal benefits, and even go to the prom. So what oppression of your rights are you talking about?

(Oh, right. The notwithstanding clause, which allows Provinces to ignore parts of the Constitution. Okay, that's kind of unfortunate.)

[cub4bear.livejournal.com]

Perhaps it was a mistake to use the pronoun "my."

The fact is that most people in the world don't live in Ontario, and most people in the world don't have the benefits of the human rights protection I have.

[notofthisworld.livejournal.com]

Yeah, that's true. Canada rocks.

(Except Alberta.)

My take on Catholicism at the moment

[bigmacbear]

I was going to respond here, but because I realized I was getting very long-winded I posted in my own journal. Here is my response.

[notofthisworld.livejournal.com]

Yes, that was a good mini-series, wasn't it? I learnt a few things from that, with the primary thing being that "popular" Catholic beliefs often differ from the actual church doctrine. (I remember a scene where the teacher/nun is explaining that Hell is actually not fire and brimstone, but "the far worse fate of never getting to see the face of one's god".)

Also, I've met quite a few Catholics who disagree with the official Church stance on things, but I think there's an understanding that dissent should be kept within the Church, and not blurted to the public. I can understand that. It was similar in the Australian Democrats.

Oops, bad example.

*rim shot*

[beardoc.livejournal.com]

Have you been following the latest? Murray, 28 days into his first term, has called himself a "Democrat in exile", handed in his portfolios and will not attend party meetings. It's a mess.

[notofthisworld.livejournal.com]

No, I hadn't heard about that. Egad!

Back when I was a dutiful little worker for the party, I remember noticing that the foundation of the party had some serious flaws, so I'm not surprised that these divisions have formed. But I'm honestly surprised by how nasty it's getting. (Senator Bartlett called Senator Murray "gutless, pathetic, stupid, childish, completely beyond redemption, warped, off the planet, juvenile, politically inept, [and] deliberately treacherous"? I've met Senator Bartlett and he's probably the quietest guy I've ever seen in politics.)

I don't know what's going on in the party any more. I was surprised when I found out that the party had replaced Meg with Natasha. I think Meg was wronged. If it wasn't for her leadership, I doubt we ever would have survived the dual blows of Cheryl's defection and the rise of One Nation.

But I'm still technically a member of the party, so I probably shouldn't say anything more.

[greginto.livejournal.com]

Hmm, I think it is all about lives lived.

Some of the youth at the world youth day were really open-minded, and they are, as the pope noted, the future.

Change is constant, but not set on any type of chartered course. If you try to force it, you get resistance, but if you let it happen...and just coax it along, you can get some great results.

I happen to be sort of a catholic (I did the whole she-bang but get married and die) but I am not active in the Church, but am active in my belief that there is some greater power, and that if Jesus did once roam the earth, he'd be pissed to all heaven to see how things are going currently.

Oh well, wait and see what time will bring...

P.s. Yay for more bears.