On Wishlists

[nfotxn]

I'll just say it outright: pointing your Amazon.com wishlist out ot people in your journal is fucking tacky. Would you spew out a list of things you want in casual conversation to these people? Seriously if anybody possibly reading this just handed me a list of things they want I'd tell them to take a fuckin' hike. But because we can hide behind our computers it's somehow OK?

Get this, culture on the internet is still developing. Now colour me a conservative but some shit is just NOT ok.

I dunno about others but if I'm going to buy somebody a gift it's a personal thing. Maybe it was the way I was raised but a good gift is not giving somebody simply what they want. It's more symbolic than that, the best gifts express your relationship to a person. Now in respect to the Christian tradition one might recall a certain Little Drummer Boy who had but a song to play for a certain son of god? That's right, to any practicing Chrisitian I would argue that use of a wishlist would be ignoring and even failing the kind of lessons we teach to MOTHERFUCKING CHILDREN.

Let's also not forget that it's t's cold, hyper-consumerist and generally selfish marketing ploy! Wishlists are useful for customers to track purchases they'd like to make for themselves in the future. But merely checking things off another person's list really lacks any detectable levels of genuine sentiment. Reminds me of one too many Rohl Dalh or J.K.Rawlings characters. Again, lessons that are taught to children.

That's why I don't like it. But I'm pretty sure the individuals in question really have little conscience in these matters.

So I'm thinking of possible legitimate uses but really none are coming to mind. Wedding registries are also pretty tacky mostly because of my stance as being unsupported by the institution that is marriage. I can imagine guide lines for helping newly weds out.. but that's a bit of a non-sequiter. I think what this comes down to is financial status and people's attitudes, specifically mine, are towards spending money. Personally I've seen a pretty large gamut of financial standings in my time. From living in a single professional parent home growing up to having friends with two Ph.D parents and others on social assistance. But what's universal is that beyond social status the concept of dignity is something everyone should have. Without getting on a conservative rant it certainly is a rare trait these days. Fact is that I'd say the majority of north americans are pretty fucking greedy. Again, regardless of their socio-economic status.

Ahhh, so there it is. Distilled to perfect clarity: Greed is bad. See why I love journaling? I get to live in my own little autistic universe of rationalization.

Comments

thoughts

[murphy.livejournal.com]

I agree that posting amazon wishlists and the like can be construed as tacky, but they can also be useful. First off, they can prevent a situation where you buy someone something that they already own. If you were to send a gift to an internet friend, would you include a gift receipt or try to make sure its from a store that has locations near them so they could return it if need be? Secondly, someone can get a fairly accurate impression of what someone's tastes are from reading their wishlist without just selecting something from said list and sending it off. It helps to know if someone's interest lies in books or music or electronics or kitcsh, etc, and what specific varieties within those groups. Also, I don't think anyone posts it with greed first and foremost in their mind...or as a way to cojole their friends into getting them shit they wanted for themselves anyway...moreso it just functions as an easy way to create the opportunity for someone to do something nice for you if they want to. Sometiems having that list with the person's address handy makes the difference between being able to get them something and not.

After all...don't many parents encourage their CHILDREN to write a letter to santa with a list of stuff they want and then make use of that list in the same way?

Re: thoughts

[nfotxn.livejournal.com]

Heya, I remember you.. O-something?

Some very valid points but I think the context on LJ is sorta outside of a familial one where barriers aren't quite so high. Maybe I'm just blocking people and should dive into the gift giving frenzy that is the holidays? Still having a list of things you want with "BUY!" right next to each item and the shipping address included and ready to FedEx by tomorrow morning still seems to imply a certain greed and lack of appreciation.

If people were just posting lists of things they wanted that'd be totally cool and even creative. This is just impersonal.

But I guess I'm just stuck-up that way.

Re: thoughts

[cub4bear.livejournal.com]

Someone who really gives two shits really ought to be able to figure out what one likes from one's journal. Of course, this assumes that one's journal contains actual content and not just quizzes and one-liners. Besides, isn't there a difference between letting people who read your journal know that you like certain things and posting a link to a site that allows people to click a few links and order a gift within a few minutes? That's just greedy. And whatever happened to "it's the thought that counts?"

In any case, as a well-known link whore, I offer up the following link containing a master link of Livejournal post types:

http://members.rogers.com/cub4blog/2002_05_01_archives.html#85035619

[xtc-cub.livejournal.com]

I just find that wishlist should be more a guideline to go by. It takes away from getting something original or sentimental. Shopping for someone is half the fun of it and it actually makes you put thought into your purchase. But I've seen several of these lists. It now just takes the guesswork out of most of it.
Mind you I like the fact of someone having to wrestle with the tape and paper. It also adds the element of surprise.
People have been asking what I want for Christmas. I just say "Use your imagination" It also goes to see just how good your friends really know you.
I just find it a bit cold and impersonable to just "Click and you're done!" Don't we have enough instant this and easy that?
It just makes the world a colder place. Sad, but true.

[fauxbear.livejournal.com]

I couldn't agree more. Thank you for writing what I wanted to say.

[haenck.livejournal.com]

Sure, but on the other hand, I want a pony.

[bitterlawngnome.livejournal.com]

Do you really want to pony-proof the apartment?

[beardoc.livejournal.com]

Isn't Amazon.com selling ponies now?

[umkinda.livejournal.com]

Juh-wuh? Sorry baby, I'm still blurred by the blow-out turnaround you did with your "people who are in porn mags are low-self-esteem desperados searching for attention" cum "check out these naked pics of me with my latest record" dance move.

[nfotxn.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I'm a hypocrit that way. Infact I've been thinking about that whole porn rant a lot lately. I'm a little confused as what to think now. Does it stem from personal esteem issues? Definitely.

Gotta work on that actually.

[beardoc.livejournal.com]

But they're the idiosyncracies that I actually like about Brodie.

[thundrous applause]

[danthered.livejournal.com]

Re: [thundrous applause]

[folkyboy.livejournal.com]

what he said!

Re: [thundrous applause]

[notofthisworld.livejournal.com]

From what I understand, bridal showers are supposed to be for giving things which the couple needs (plates, and cutlery, and stuff), while wedding gifts are supposed to be just gifts. Hence, it's okay to mention your bridal registry on the invitations to the bridal shower, but it's rude to mention it on the wedding invitations.

I have no idea if people actually follow that. I read it in an ettiquette guide.

[bitterlawngnome.livejournal.com]

I dunno, I'm kinda conflicted about the whole "Xmas Gift Giving Thing" as a whole.

• For me there is a value to being forced to think about what kind of material relationship I have with people (why do I feel the urge to give them something?) and more deeply about who they are (do they have needs that I can fulfill by buying something, or will this merely be entertainment? or will it be guilt?) and the rewards and responsibilities and consequences associated with the ideas of gift giving and its tranny sister, Charity. And what is their relationship to caritas?


• I would rather buy something off a list than give something they really have no desire for; but this approval of lists is modified by the fact that if I have to resort to this list either a) the person is so very well provided with goods that I would have trouble identifying something they don't have or b) I don't care enough about them to find out what they might want by a more personal route.
  
• The people who go into the whole consumer frenzy thing ... I kinda view it in the same light I view snotty behaviour at bear events, as a filter for people I probably won't get along with, and so don't have to waste energy on.


• The part that I think is neglected and ignored on an official level and yet plays a huge part in Xmas: people who cannot afford to buy things for their "gift list" often feel guilty, estranged, don't feel a sense of participation in their community or social group where everyone else seems to be able to spend spend spend...I think this is the worst and most damaging part of the whole mess, even worse than the sheer waste of all that meaningless consumption.


• I don't see anything wrong with greed, a.k.a. desire, per se - I mean, we all want stuff, right? Either material things, or love, or power, or admiration, or sex, or whatever. The problem for me is how we go about dealing with desires...

[haenck.livejournal.com]

Ooooh, I like this...

I never thought about the concept of sexual greed. Where does desire end and greed begin?

[notofthisworld.livejournal.com]

Oh, by the way...

Word.

[cub4bear.livejournal.com]

Excel.

[verucabear.livejournal.com]

Well, as someone who both HAS a wishlist AND posts the link to it AND checks out others lists when THEY post them, I think you are being a little harsh. Yeah, I'm a greedy fuck...but that's not why I post my list. When I post my list, it's to let people check out the kind of stuff that I like...what kinda books I read, what kinda games I play, what kinda movies I like. I won't lie and say I'm not happy when someone feels like sending me a gift...hell, who doesn't like to get presents? Whether or not someone buys something for me has no relevance to me in terms of friendship. When I buy something for someone that's on their wishlist, I like to think of that little bit of happiness I might bring to their day when they get it. Sometimes you just wanna surprise someone with something you know they'll like and that they want...it's fun.

Just because I or anyone else posts a link to a wishlist, that doesn't meant that you or anyone else has to go look at it. It's a link...not the list itself. It's not that hard to scroll past a link that takes up 1 line of text. Via wishlists, I've found a couple people with similar reading tastes to me...and it's cool to be able to talk books with someone you already know likes the same sort of stuff as you. Like I said before, I like getting gifts, hell, my LJ friends (both those I know in person and those I know just online)were VERY generous last year when my birthday came up and I was moving to a new place. Yeah I posted my list alot; I even made it a running joke...but I honestly didn't expect anyone to buy me ANYTHING. The fact that they wanted to send me something both surprised and touched me.

So, flame me for my comment....after all, I know you and I don't know each other THAT well....but we HAVE had a few nice chats online, and I've always thought you were a pretty cool guy. As one of the "individuals in question"...I just thought I'd offer up my opinion on the subject.

[deftera.livejournal.com]

I couldn't have said it better myself! People look at it all wrong, i don't really think anybody who put up their list on LJ expects to get anything off of it from anybody on here! But being that i like to buy gifts for people, i asked for the list! hell like 5+ people did the last and posted it on lj because i asked them too because i actually do want to buy them something and something i know they'll enjoy and use.

But anyhow, ditto on your comment, very well said.

Personally...

[the-string.livejournal.com]

Brodie! I enjoyed the autistic rant although I think that your it’s just as legitimate as a Christmas shopping list. When I say legitimate I'm speaking of the mode of transportation through which we communicate in this e-journal world: your wishlist, from what I can tell employs hope for maturity and anti-consumerism, the giftlist employs wishes for hairdryers and digital cameras. Understandably, your wishlist is obviously more of a moral endeavor and in my opinion, a well articulated one at that. Regardless of intention however, we transmit these personal things, even though some are trite and superficial because they are personal and the technology allows us to. Frankly, I say more power to the individual who tells people what they want but only for the reasons that it is a matter of personal expression. In other words, I support the intent, not the result, product, etc. Indeed, I understand that your concern is not the expression of wants, but consumer gluttony. You call down the expression however, by saying that this stuff of posting wishlists in its entirety is not "ok". In this world of strange personal extension, saying "Greed is bad" is the same as saying "I want a Lexus" and that’s ok. Word up to your personal expression.

Darcy

beeeeep-beeep-beeeepp-beeeep-beeeep!

[imattv.livejournal.com]

Hey Brodie?

We interupt this rant for a special late breaking newsflash

***This is ImattV making a special for some and unwanted-kamikazi- guest appearance for others***

(hey--I have an old friend who started an LJ so I just signed on for the first time in a month to spook her
and had to then of course, sneak a peak at what's up w/all my old friends...so hey....still fighting the good fight arentchya?

.....kick ass!)

You rock!

Don't bend on this one Brodie...because you are absolutely right.

....anyone who tries to justify their base insecurity and greed about this,

....are just plain full of shit.

It is Wwwwwwrong.

it's wrong and negates the point of getting to know someone well enough to merit a gift in the first place...


To literally have a link to what you want --plus shipping and handling....it's just impersonal and crass and pathetic...

"AAaaaaand if you act riiiiight now...I'll send you a big slopppppy thank you note and maybe remember to send you happpy Birthday & Merry X-mas E-caaaarrrdds."

--"order now, my friends list is standing by..."

it's immoral, disgusting and embarrassing.

--you're just right on the money Brodie Chree....
(if you'll pardon the expression)

you, my friend.... are going to be one hellllluva force to reckon with someday!

I am truly one of your bigest fans.

Happy Holidays

your old friend

Matt

[brucelloyd.livejournal.com]

Didn't you post your address? One can assume from this you are soliciting either gifts or some sort of card. I never buy the anti-consumerism bullshit from 20-somethings who think they're being anarchistic - especially when they possess a $900 bow for their little fiddle.

Once you are actually working for a living, paying rent (or a mortgage) through your ass, your anti-cosumerism rant will become pretty tired.

Grow up.

Anarchistic 20-somethings

[the-string.livejournal.com]

I buy the anti-consumerism bit; fucking rock it Brodie. Fo Shizza

Suck a dick Grizz.

Farts Beland

greed

[zombietruckstop.livejournal.com]

Worse than wishlists are the "I'm broke and I need ____, and I'm calling on my dear friends for help" posts. (In the spirit of full disclosure, I posted one of those as a joke (http://www.livejournal.com/talkread.bml?journal=zombietruckstop&itemid=15348) which ended up in someone actually buying me the item I posted about (http://www.livejournal.com/talkread.bml?journal=zombietruckstop&itemid=15365)- oops!)

As far as wishlists specifically, my thought it yes, it is terribly tacky. But if you post it, and someone actually buys you something from it, well, enjoy the gift...

The whole "greed is bad" partyline is a little simplistic - where do you draw the line at pure greed and just wanting a better life? And who is the arbiter of that line? ("Yourself" would be my answer to that...) Grizz was a little rude, but he does have a point in that a person's view on these issues tends to change as he grows older and has more experience.

[bobaloo.livejournal.com]

I posted my Amazon.com wishlist. Guilty! WOO!

My intention? None. I saw others post their own wishlist, and I thought.."Hey! I have a wish list...I'll post mine too." Baaahh. Mooo.

But it's a WISH list, not a Hey,-because-I-posted-it,-you-*have*-to-buy-me-something-from-it!-list. I use my Amazon wish list as a reminder to myself about things I want. Hopefully, I will purchase them also. If someone out there in the LJ world takes it upon themselves to purchase something for me as a gift and they use that as a guideline...great! I can't thank them enough. Too kind. If they just look at it and go, "Wow..Bob likes such-and-such DVD? Me too!"..cool! If they never look at it and don't ever plan to purchase a gift for me ever in their lifetime? Fantastic. No sleep lost.

Sure, it seems greedy. But is it? Nahh. It's only greedy if I would have written... "Here's my Amazon.com wishlist! Now buy me something for Xmas or you aren't my friend anymore, sucka! I deserve it anyway!"

I understand your ire with those who post them and why you think it's tacky. But tacky is fun sometimes, and I have never been known for being eloquent and having great taste. Fer christ sake, my musical tastes and my love for WWE wrestling alone should tell people that. (Woo! KISS rules!) So in my world, throwing out ideas to anyone who might ever want to either get me a gift or just find out more about my tastes seems harmless. I'd do it in person or over a computer. I'm not hiding behind anything.

Dig? It's all good.

[darke.livejournal.com]

Strangely enough, I strongly agree with nearly all that you've written here. I wrote a rant about it sometime back when my friends list contained a daily reminder of a wish list, but ultimately, I just zoned it out. People will be what people will be. I'm not going to change the world, nor do I particularly care to. And sometimes, the good grace to let someone have bad manners, I think, is worth the extra karma in the end, because chances are, they aren't going to listen to you anyway. Then again, I've gotten less inclined to beat my head against brick walls willingly as I've grown older :)

So I just roll my eyes and move along.

Well said...

[visualeffect.livejournal.com]

In reding through some of journal, for a very attractive 20 year old, it's great to see you got it going on upstairs too bud.