Boner for Brains

[nfotxn]

A lot of people (especially gays perhaps) have trouble dating or dating people who are not porn star material because they're such suddenly shallow egotists. The supposed honesty of "types" is valid but the result of an often irrational process. Attraction is fluid and can be reformed at will with genuine experiences of intimacy and love. Vanity and undue attention to one's physical appearance subsequently effects the fluidity of attraction. Media, including the sub-cultural, plays a big role in the distraction of individuals into this sphere often with suggestive images and sometimes straight-up dogma. See female teen magazines as a good example of the latter

It's not to say that we don't have "types" hard-wired (male and/or female attraction is one) but the scope is dictated culturally. To such a degree that we often times feel unnecessarily self-conscious, needy and generally vulnerable. This keeps our desires answerable to media rather than to the breadth and greatness of each-other.

Comments

[jawnbc]

Nope.

[nfotxn.livejournal.com]

Ok, why?

[jawnbc]

Because.

Oh, a bit more than that. I think for some people, the specifics of sexual expression aren't as critical. For them, the personality and values of the person are more important than the physical components or "what the other person is into." That's fine, but it's not better than those--those of us--whose sexuality works on somewhat more limited criteria. In my case, I'm a face/cock person: barring extremes of obesity or emaciation (and presuming mobility isn't impeded by same) I'm good to go, if they're face makes me wanna kiss them and they got a piece of meat that is big enough but not too big. I've got a meaty ass and I like it fucked--a 5.5 inch ain't gonna penetrate me.

Also for me, the idea of coming out, facing violence, family exclusion bla bla--only to partner with someone who can't suck cock passionately and skilled--is contradictory. I speak from experience, having fallen in love wiht a great man with whom the sex stuff wasn't tenable. We're great friend instead--and still.

A decade ago I decided to fuck first and date second: too many really nice guys, for whom the specifics of sex aren't as important as they are to me, got hurt when we dated a bit, then we went to bed and I had to say "won't ever work for me." And I've been on the receiving end of that too--ouch. Despite my somewhat specific criteria, I find many, many men with whom sex is fun and fulfilling; I date them.

I mean dated them, I'm married now. When I met querrelle he was shocked by my "fuck then date" policy...but we're still together and doing well. So for us it's worked really well. I think that's the important thing: being honest with one's self and one's sexual and romantic partners.

And not disssing those for whom it's different--if they've the balls to be honest about it. Too many guys (gay and not) partner, then pursue their desires on the side, duplicitously. I think that sucks.

But what are you worried about? U R sooo hawt!

[hannibull.livejournal.com]

Too many guys (gay and not) partner, then pursue their desires on the side, duplicitously. I think that sucks.

As you said, people are different. I for one don't see sex as a deciding factor for the survival of a relationship. And about trying people out to see if they're compatible, I respect people a bit more than that. I can't have sex with just about anyone, I believe sex is very special and is not like any other "fun activity" like eating an ice-cream, it's something where you completely give yourself to someone and I for one can't do that with just anyone. It's too special for that and I would find it degrading to my body and self-respect, and honestly, I take great pride in that.

Personality, sense of humor, ambition, those are my deciding factors for a relationship. The best penis size is that of the one you love i always say, because when you're so attracted to your partner and you feel that ultimate love inside your stomach, the sex has to be good, at least that's how I see it. One can have a "hot" body and still be a total asshole, and what do you do with such a person then.
When I was a horny teenager looks was everything, but it just doesn't seem that important to me anymore. i've fallen in love with guys who weren't "my type" but who were so cool and were always smiling, and that attracted me much more to them than looks could ever do.
But everyone is different
I find the gay world to be utterly decadent sometimes, and it disgusts me

[iberianbear.livejournal.com]

My ass must be even fatter than yours. I need at least a 8 incher to feel anything.

[sonoranbear.livejournal.com]

This hasn't been my experience at all. While I hold valid your points on media manipulation of a cultural aestethic for 'beauty' and even its power over what some may feel is the acceptable range and norms for attraction, I don't think most or even 'a lot' of people have trouble dating someone who is not 'porn star material'.

[ruralrob.livejournal.com]

No from me too.

If dating porn star material only was a common practice, very few partnerships would exist, in the gay world or elsewhere. In fact the entrire world is made of partnerships who's constituents would have no future whatsover in the realm of porn.

True there are shallow people around. True the media dictates the people we are attracted to - in our fantasies. But, in real life haven't you noticed we are happy to settle for considerably less? And in real life we do seek personality, a sense of humour and truth - all characteristics entirely absent from the porn star aura.

Feeling self concious, needy and vulnerable because of the influence of the media? Never. Maybe teenage girls have this problem, but we are adults here who've grown and matured and developed character and values and independence, and have learned to choose our mates for ourselves, without the help of culturally dictated norms. The suggestion that the media can pull the wool over our natural likes and dislikes is something I have much trouble relating to.

Admittedly I don't live a typical life now. But I've done the dating pool thing in Toronto. I also know the frustrations which result in believing that there are too many fools and shallow egotists out there. And there are. But most of them grow out of it. Or get left on the heap of wannabees and has-beens, unhappy and alone

[mondragon.livejournal.com]

I grew up in Southern California and found very few people who were publically identified as attractive actually attractive to me - and the setting of cultural norms of attractiveness is big business there.

Then I moved to the NYC area and discovered that I indeed had a libido and there were indeed a large number of men I found attractive.

So my experience is that my attractions have never been very fluid, are completely resistant to will, and have been objectively indifferent to media presentations of what is or is not supposed to be hot.

Where the media images came into play is in making me feel like shit because I didn't match them.

[clarkelane.livejournal.com]

Seems to me, what you are really writing about is self-awareness and intelligence, not sexual attraction.

Indeed, we're all affected by media / cultural manipulation. Folks who can sort that from their values might not fit within your critique.

From my own experience, while I realize I'm not physically everyone's "dream date," I've found that more men have been put off by my intellectual intensity than by the need to pursue some other beauty ideal -- unless "vapid" is a beauty ideal...?

I think you are making an astute cultural observation.

[diesel-pioneer.livejournal.com]

By and large I don't find people who are deemed 'porn star material' especially attractive, though obviously I've got my own ideas of who would be 'porn star material', presuming you're using the term as shorthand for 'physically attractive'.
I actually find it quite difficult to think of celebrities I think are attractive, too. On a sub-cultural level, I don't really find my idea of beauty is totally in tune with those producing bear porn..

[dirtyglamour.livejournal.com]

I agree in some ways and disagree in others. I don't necessarily think the media influenced my choices of sex partners at all. My sexual "type" was hard-wired into me. I tend to like big hairy guys. Though now that I have some experience under my belt, I think that my type is alot broader than it used to be.

I think the older I get, the more fluid it becomes. I'm less intimidated by sex than I used to be. In my relationships, I notice a point where physical appearance becomes far less important of a sexual attractiveness factor than personality, and intimacy.

Not sure I made any point at all. But there it is.

[satarnion.livejournal.com]

I don't know if I buy what I'm typing here, but I thought it was appropriate:

There have been arguments about attractiveness that place the entire list of cultural and physical characteristics in a continuum all relating back to the fundamental question of reproductive fitness. Sexual selection of features such as waist-hip ratio in females, strength in males, represent a better capability of fathering and producing viable offspring. In the same way, bling, and even simple cultural awareness, imply a certain level of leisure and wealth that is difficult to attain for most. These ideas are corroborated, for example, by studies which have shown that men are most artistically creative during their most reproductively fit years.

Cultural identifiers of wealth and higher likelihood of reproductive success change with respect to the culture in which someone is placed. Pre-occupation with your physical characteristics and a fluid capability of pulling it off successfully, therefore, is a means not of actually expressing attractive physical characteristics, but of showing another that one actually has time to focus on understanding what is culturally attractive and, what's more, to adapt themselves to it.

How one expresses their 'greatness,' then, is simply a matter of where one wishes to invest their time and resources (e.g., at the gym, library, mall, concert, flipping through magazines, or at a studio) to produce a glossy image that appeals to the desired individual and, above all, conveys the highly fluid idea of successful living, using best what one has been given from birth. The pre-occupation you speak of, then, is simply an inability to make a solid decision.

It all becomes extremely complicated when one includes the possibility of transmitting culture (i.e., memes) as overriding the individual desire to transmit genes. This notion, however, has only been hypothesised. It could be a big thing for homosexuals, however, since we're incapable of producing our own viable offspring with our chosen mates.

So...

[whiskerfish.livejournal.com]

I know what you are saying.

What are you really saying, though?

This feels reactionary.

Sexual attraction is irrational.

Can't really explain fetishes either.

Gimme more, I wanna know more.

Where does this come from?

Why?

Re: So...

[darkphuque.livejournal.com]

Sexual attraction is irrational.

This is a statement with which I can 100% agree. I spent the first 30 years of my life as a bottom who loved older/more mature men, who could fuck like rabbits. In he second 30 years I have become a "top daddybear". Until I met quirkypandacub I had never dated anyone who was essentially smooth and Asian. He is 99% the antithesis of what I once thought was hot... and... there is 40 years difference in our ages. The usual was 10-15 years younger.

I admit that as I grow older the spectrum of men that were sexually attractive grows wider... OTOH, I still don't like BIIIIG men and don't like fems. Once, I would never have thought to bed an asian, now... and not because of Jeff... I look at them as potential playmates.

I still can be interested in guys my own age... dinosaurs, and Castro clones are still hawt. I find myself looking at clean shaven with some level of interest.... something I NEVER did before.

Yes, the media give us a pseudo-norm for beauty, but in the end... beauty is in the eyes of the beholder.
A lot of men have said I am sexy... yet, I would never be interested in someone like me.

[jprtoronto.livejournal.com]

It's because I'm fat isn't it.

[shawnsyms.livejournal.com]

I agree with you that attraction is fluid, but I don't think it can be "reformed at will."

To my thinking at least, the interplay between self-awareness, environmental factors, and personal history that's involved in the expression of sexual desire is something that defies easy definitions or single points of control.

"Will" may be involved, albeit in a sort of diffuse way, but I don't think it's the only thing at play.

[nfotxn.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I agree. I don't like the way I wrote that. But it was 5AM and I'd been dancing all night.

[jliv.livejournal.com]

I think that simplifies it a bit, blaming it wholeheartedly on media images. Most gay men, from my experience, are projecting their own body dysmorphia issues on to the objects of their sexual desire. Typically, these issues seem to come from childhood experiences. I've spent a lot of my adult life try to look past those sexual cues by understanding their source, and understanding what exactly will satisfy me emotionally in life through intimacy. Oddly enough, casual sex has become less appealing as I've gotten older, and I've actually become more interested in reconnecting love with sexual expression.

[bearringsd.livejournal.com]

I have met people who don't seem to have a type (as evidenced by their past partners) and who seem to react to a collection of psycological and personality traits of their partners. I have also met people who are attracted to a specific collection of traits that severely limits their dating pool.

I don't think one is better than the other, but both valid in their own way as long as people are honest about it. If, on the other hand, someone is just using the whole 'type' thing as an excuse to dismiss you, then that's more suspect, but how would you know that's exactly what is going on?

[http://users.livejournal.com/speedy_/]

I'll say that a big part is being played (in the case of gay guys) that we are more animal, and look for sex first. And it is also because of this that a lot of people fall into short-term relationships.

[gooeygomo.livejournal.com]

oh yes. you're absolutely correct.

general gay populous act like junior high school girls.

soo retarded!

gah