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Grown ups should have passports. What's the big deal? Currently only 15% of Americans have one and maybe this will make that figure increase...and become a little less embarassing.

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Yeah what IS the big deal? I mean we've never been at war, last time I checked Terrorists are not from Canada. Although the blame for 9/11 did come our direction pretty fucking quick in the early days. We have the largest undefended border on earth.. so yeah? Why do we need a passport?

Fact is Canadian tourism needs easy access to our cities. I'm not dicking around here, you THINK Americans will be more apt to get passports now that Canada is more tightly controlled? Fuck no. It's an inconvenience and a bigger hit to our economy than yours. Canada-US trade relationships are really fucking strained under Bush and this is just a cherry on the top.

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Let's set aside the question of whether passports are the right policy decision or not, just for a moment.

If one of our countries had a security need and the other country had concerns that a proposed step to protect that security might have an impact on tourism from the other country, I would hope that the security issue would prevail.

If Canada believed that it required passports from the United States to protect itself and the US were in the position that doing so might result in fewer Canadian dollars making it to the US (it goes back and forth whose dollar is stronger) I would strongly support Canadian security over the US tourist industry.

Canada is not a nation of tray carriers like a developing tropical island country with 90% of its GDP based on tourism.

I can't argue articulately the merits of going to a passport system; there are definite pros and cons. But we can't base this decision solely on the issue you raise.

Like most Americans I very much admire Canada. More, I have strongly considered emigrating to there. So it's not from a place of smug indifference when I say that in principle the impact on Canada's tourism industry cannot be the top concern when considering a policy matter concerning national security. I'm open to hearing reasons why or why not a passport policy is a good idea, but those reasons would carry much more weight if they concerned security.

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The impact might be a little larger than you imagine. Since SARS even in 2006 there were 1 million less American tourists to Toronto since before the outbreak. Given that YYZ is probably the major entry point into the country by air that's a lot of tourist dollars already lost. As I said, cherry on the top. Lest we not forget the silliness over soft wood lumber and beef. Not to jump to conspiracy theory conclusions but one MIGHT think that the Bush administration is trying to take our economy down for the count as far as trade. You know, in the name of security. Food security, travel security and job security. Pay-back for not participating in Iraq.

I'm just confused by your position as an American who has probably had to swallow a lot more bullshit in the name of Homeland Security. Sure, we're talking about prevention here. But prevention of what? I could imagine maybe implementing this on 9/12/2001 or something. But it's been more than half a decade. I just don't see the rational for a new more repressive system replacing a system that is clearly working. Perhaps it's not pragmatic to say, given the state of the world these days, but I don't like being bullied in the name of security. I want to see real problems solved. Frankly I smell a rat and I won't tow the security line until I see proof we're fixing a problem here.

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You need a passport to travel to Spain. Are you being bullied by that? Is it repressive to ask for a passport for international travel?

I don't think Bush gives a rat's ass about Canada and have a hard time thinking that nonparticipation in Iraq is even on his radar screen. You're implying that he's even thinking about Canada, which he is probably not doing, any more than he could find it on a map.

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I traveled between Portugal and Spain without the use of one of my passports thanks to the Schengen agreement. Which is interesting given the on-going terrorist activities in Spain particularly in Madrid. You don't think that the current administration has issues with our immigration policies? The ties between Canada, Pakistan and India? Our more lenient policies on soft drugs?

I'm all for the spirit of debate but when people don't agree with you why does your tone turn so arrogant? I'm saying "this is unreasonable for these reasons" and your response is "We don't care about you! You don't matter!".

So I will tell you what I really think here. I think the process of travel between our countries SHOULD have been better streamlined. Rather than just reverting to a passport requirement. Whether or not this requires a document called a passport is neither here nor there. We can achieve both goals of increasing security while not impacting tourism or trade. And keeping the cost accessible to anyone who wants to visit our two countries. We have the technology and the motivation but it was still not accomplished.

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No, it's Bush who doesn't care about Canada. I do. I simply believe that travel between countries also generally requires a passport.

If it were the other way around and Canada began requiring passports for travel from the United States I wonder how receptive it would be to complaints of the U.S. tourist industry demanding that Canada compromise its security?

I sense a certain level of entitlement to the demand that the U.S. not require passports to enter its borders. While I do care very much about Canada's well being I should be clear that the policy about U.S. passports must ultimately be made with U.S. security interests in mind rather than the needs of the Canadian tourist industry.

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I'm really hoping this argument ends in sex...

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bullneck.livejournal.com

Erm, I have to agree with

sunsmogseahorse: international travel between nations generally requires passports, and I see no valid reason why the US requiring said documents on travelers between the US and Canada should suddenly be viewed as so horrid or evil, even if ushered in under Bush II. Sorry, but the US isn't a party to the EU and the Schengen agreement, and there isn't a structure in place in North America to assume such a role -- not that, to be blunt, Canada would want such an inevitably US-dominated structure.

I find this post more hilarious in the sense that you got held up from even returning to Canada from Madrid, and yet you declare US passport requirements to be ridiculous? Excuse me? What threat does Canada face from frickin' Spain? Basque nationalist terrorists are gonna bomb Vancouver or Sudbury or something? Or OMG, Andalusian Islamo-jihadist orange farmers are totally going to attack London and Kitchener! Maybe one should complain about one's own country's passport requirements before whingeing about another's, hmm?

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wwabbit.livejournal.com

If memory serves the Madrid incident was the result of a Spanish agent unwilling to do anything that might violate *US* law because the flight was routed through Newark.

Seems it is the US that is afriad of the Andalusian Islamo-jihadist orange farmers.

I'm so glad we're here to enforce our phobias on the rest of the world.

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Know what? This is a total ad hominem argument and I don't think it's worth my time or effort to address it. You've made some really strident assumptions that are a) factually incorrect and b) not related to the humour piece that I wrote. Way to fly off the handle at a humour piece Bill O'Reilly. If you want to have a discussion with me show at least an initial shred of good faith or go suck a dick. I'm too nice to low-ball you back. And with all due respect sir it would be very easy.

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bullneck.livejournal.com

Um, I'm not Bill O'Reilly by any means, thanks -- and what exactly is ad hominem about my reply? Jeez, way to fly off the handle at my snarky agreement with another poster who disagrees with your view on US-Canada border requirements. And 'Low-ball' me back? Again, where did I rip into you as a person as opposed to governmental policies?

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You don't necessarily need a passport to travel to Spain (cf. the Schengen Agreement - when we went from Lisbon to Madrid there were no border checks). Plus, although my memory is probably faulty, there was a long time in Europe where a national ID card (cheaper and easier to get than a passport) was enough to get you into many European countries.

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trailtramp.livejournal.com

It's true, most of us Americans are lazy self-entitled bastards, and combined with our slow-moving bureaucracy (passports handled by the post office), I don't see the passport ownership rate rising any time soon.

That being said, my life would be just a little bit grayer if it weren't for my trips up to British Columbia.

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pxtl.livejournal.com

They're expensive and have to be renewed frequently. Really, not much worse than a driver's license - but a driver's license gets a little more frequent use. And when you live in a country that's bigger than the entire continent of Australia, travelling internationally is somewhat less frequent than in other countries.

/already has his Canuck passport.

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have to be renewed frequently

Every ten years is frequently?

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pxtl.livejournal.com

Oh, I thought it was 5.

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10 for US citizens, 5 for Canadians.

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No, Canadian passports are valid for 5 years or less depending on your age. Unless you can give them a good reason for needing one valid longer than that period. My Dad has a 10-year one because he is a Merchant Marine, for instance.

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The big deal is this: Passports are expensive - $97 for adult US citizens. You also need to buy passport pictures - that's another $10 with your AAA discount. Plus, if it's your first one, you need to apply for it in person, which takes time. When these regulations apply to land crossings as well, it may greatly impact the viability of business located in border areas that rely on international tourism (think Niagara casinos or Bellingham outlet malls).

I still don't know why it should be embarassing that most Americans don't have passports. Travelling internationally is a luxury most of us can't afford; we shouldn't make fun of people just because they're poor.

Also, I've been to Epcot and, quite frankly, it was way cleaner than regular Mexico.

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Grown ups can afford $97.

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And travelling to Canada or Mexico is travelling internationally. If you can afford to go to a casino or an outlet mall you can afford a passport.

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You're missing the point here, Ted. If you live in Surrey and are used to nipping down to Bellingham to buy delicious American groceries, $100 every five years + the hassle of getting a passport may prevent you from doing so entirely, which harms American businesses.

I'm just sayin'.

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backrubbear.livejournal.com

I think you have more faith in paper credentials than I do. Only the poor terrorists will have passports in their own (banned) name.

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zombietruckstop.livejournal.com

I thought you already had to have a passport? I'm dumb.

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Naw, you just needed two pieces of ID to fly into Canada for a holiday or business trip until now. Of course a passport is always easier. By this time next year you will "may be required" to show a passport to travel between the US and Canada by land. Which is extra retarded if you want to take a road trip with a group of your buddies from Toronto to Buffalo, Rochester, Detroit or Chicago or something.

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You still don't need a passport to get back into the USA from Canada as long as you don't do it on a plane.

ROAD TRIP!

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Yeah well Roadtrip now. A year from now it will be a passport road trip.

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wwabbit.livejournal.com

The kicker was listening to NPR this weekend: seemingly your snowbirds will be trapped in the USA... them and their money already here. The tourists who head north... wellllll... they will get a grace period - we won't stress over them for a little while. There's an evident trade pseudo-tariff being put into place here. Plus... Canada is actually feeling a need to come south, visit conventions and *show us how to get passports.* (Apart from saying anything about the way the money flows, that says a LOT about the education level down here...) Basically it *seems* like we put the law in place with out talking to Canada at all.

Anways... "Why would Americans want to leave home anyhow? That's for liberals and queers! "

Sign me up - at least I got a non-chip passport! But I ain't no Alaska...

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