Plain Old Doublethink

[nfotxn]

For all of you who are following this young man being hit with a Taser at UCLA, let me provide some crazy information. I may have the traditional format wrong here, but even if I do I think my logic is pretty sound.

The double-think here is that free speech comes with a price. That is to say incongruent arguments comparing speaking over a time limit to insulting a boss or co-worker.. that is wonderful double think.

Because if you did that your boss wouldn't use a Taser on you. If they did you would get a lot of money. A lot. Like tons. Millions even.

Apple? This is an orange. Orange? This is an apple. Sorry, go get some punch. You two have nothing in common.

Could you imagine every time somebody spoke passionately over a time limit at a comic convention they'd just use a Taser on the geek until he was no longer a threat?

So let's not all double think too quickly here. Free speech does come at a cost however that cost should never be physical assault. Especially in a place that is supposed to be a forum for speech like a University.

The opinions expressed about this matter really blow my mind. To imply that asking a dweeby activist question of a politician is somehow worthy of physical abuse is rather telling. Don't support the erosion of free speech through apathy, rationalization and fantastical double think.

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Also as a side-note: While I am all for the weirding of the English language through verbing of words I refuse to verb the brand name of a weapon. Taser is a brand of non-lethal weapon. I only verb things that enlighten me like googling.

Comments

[trckrfckr.livejournal.com]

Imagine if that dude had, say, called Americans histrionic?

[bullneck.livejournal.com]

Har har.

[danlmarmot.livejournal.com]

Dave, you are wise beyond words.

Brodie: Tasers are also useful for child control, because cops would rather taser a kid than figure out how to stop traffic.

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-taser19sep19,0,2376553.story?coll=la-home-center

[anthony808.livejournal.com]

I couldn't agree with you more that the overall issue here is free speech.

But the fact is that he wasn't tasered for his anything he said while at the podium, he was tasered for resisting arrest. Campus security were aware that his presence at this event was to crate a ruckus simply so he could have new material for YouTube. When they attempted to remove him quietly, he resisted. He was placed under arrest and continued to resist. So he got zapped.

I'm not saying the officers use of force was justified. I just think we need to be clear on WHY he was tazered.

[nfotxn.livejournal.com]

How did the officers know he was trying to shoot for YouTube? Why is it he got the mic if this event were controlled with time limits? Why would he shoot a video for YouTube? To demonstrate what? That campus police are using unnecessary force to silence dissent? Even if he is a dweeby activist with nothing important to say they're egging him on with this.

If he's not a dweeby activist maybe he has something to say. Something to point out. Either way free speech should be free, weather you agree or not. If they don't want him to speak at private events keep the mic to a pre-screened group of people.

[bullneck.livejournal.com]

He was allowed to go up to the mic after he jumped to the front of the line after question time had run out and beseech'd John Kerry to allow him to ask his question(s). This jumping toward the podium is why there are two campus cops are so close to him as he speaks. Kerry agreed to take his question, and that's why he was allowed to go beyond time limits.

Why would someone shoot something for YouTube? I dunno, if I got to ask Senator Kerry a question at a forum, I wouldn't mind friends filming it, especially if I knew that I was going to charge Kerry with conceding the election early and to use the word 'blowjob' in front of a US Senator. What's more interesting are the other, longer, less edited footage of this same incident from other angles -- it shows things in a lot more detail and in context.

Also, this incident happened at the University of Florida, not UCLA. UCLA was where a student was Tasered back in 11/06 for resisting arrest when he refused to show ID to officers.

[anthony808.livejournal.com]

The issue is he was a known 'video-prankster' with the intent of causing some kind of disruption in the hopes that he would have material that he could put on YouTube (he had multiple people shooting video from multiple angles). But until he causes a disruption (which he did) they couldn't prevent him from initially speaking.

Again, I'm not arguing his right to free speech. And I'm not saying the police were in the right. My point was he got tazered for resisting arrest, not what he said.

As far as I'm concerned, this 'bro' wanted some attention and he got his wish.

[anthony808.livejournal.com]

oh, we're calling him a victim now?

After he jumped to the front of the line (kids call it 'cutting') and fired off multiple questions without waiting for answers he was asked to leave.

He was charged with resisting an officer and disturbing the peace. I hardly call this guy a 'victim'. Drama queen is more like it.

Let me put it this way: Free speech, good. Disturbing the peace, bad.

[anthony808.livejournal.com]

Why is this so hard to understand? He wasn't arrested for his asking questions. First, he acts like an ass by not giving Kerry time to respond and goes over his allotted time (others were there to ask questions too.) Second, he's asked to leave. Third, he starts yelling and kicking and screaming that they are going to 'kill him'. Fourth, NOW he's being arrested for disturbing the peace. Fifth, he resists. Sixth, he gets zapped and a YouTube star is born.

As far as Kerry calling the questions 'very important' you need to remember that this is a politician... in the United States... he was covering his ass trying to distance himself from the media parade that this has become.

We're all so quick to point fingers at authority and whine about our liberties being violated without looking at ALL the facts. Disturbing the peace is a crime. You break the law, you get arrested.

And while the officer's conduct in this case may be questionable, please don't refer to police as pigs. My partner of 12 years is a cop and puts his life on the line every day so we can all enjoy our freedoms.

[anthony808.livejournal.com]

Oh, sorry I thought we were having an adult conversation here. Have a great day.

[anthony808.livejournal.com]

Oh, ok. you're right. Thanks for schooling me.

[anthony808.livejournal.com]

In turn, I hope you never need a cop and they aren't there to help you.

[anthony808.livejournal.com]

Oh it wasn't a retort. Just my hopes that you never need a 'pigs' help.

[nfotxn.livejournal.com]

Describe to me how the law was broken, according the law and I'll believe you. Until then you are respecting poor police work, blaming victims and considering free speech to be some sort of privilege for the complacent. I don't care if he was a drag queen in his panties with crash symbols. That is not disturbing the peace, not grounds for arrest or grounds to use a weapon.

If they knew he was a prankster why did they give him what he wanted? Let him stand there like an idiot, say his peace and let the crickets chirp. That's what it goes in lectures, senates and houses of parliament around the world on a daily basis. The result of this situation is amateurish and your perspective is shameful.

Why are you defending this? Seriously dude.

[anthony808.livejournal.com]

I thought this was just a discussion or debate of our our own and now it seems everyone is WAY too emotional about it.

Disturbing the peace includes disturbing others with loud and unreasonable noise or using offensive words. THIS is how he broke the law.

He wasn't arrested until started acting like a jerk... kicking and screaming and yelling 'get the fuck off me".

Brodie, please understand I am NOT saying his treatment was justified. I'm NOT saying the police were in the right to taser him.

But I refuse to jump on the bandwagon that this "poor kid" did nothing wrong. He acted inappropriately enough to warrant his removal. Yes, his resulting treatment by police was also inappropriate and he didn't deserve the severity in which the police handled him.

But this guy is hardly the martyr for free speech that the media has made him. He's comes off as an opportunist desperate for attention. And he got what he wanted. I'm sure he couldn't be happier.

Also, my opinion (which is also free speech) doesn't deserve to be referred to as shameful, just because I won't call this guy a "victim."

I figured that you would respect difference of opinion. Was I wrong?

[nfotxn.livejournal.com]

So being a drama queen is grounds for arrest? My god, how many gays do I know that deserve a good Taser in the ass?

[anthony808.livejournal.com]

LOL, true that.

[whiskerfish.livejournal.com]

In my world a Taser is a sex toy.

One zap is all it takes!

[evanrude.livejournal.com]

I love it when you talk dirty.

[moroccomole.livejournal.com]

I'm waiting to hear all the details before I make my mind on this one.

I will point out, however, that it happened in Florida and not at UCLA.

[enigmacub.livejournal.com]

I'm with you. I really can't state if the guy was a victim or deserved what he got. I have not watched the video yet, but I did hear the audio when they were talking about it on the radio. The two main things everyone on both sides agree on is that this guy was acting like an ass-hat and the police used too much force by using a taser. From what I can tell most people's feelings on this lie close to their political views. Let's take politcs out of the equation for a second. If this was an author who was verbally harrassed by a participant instead of a politician, would people have even bothered to comment on it? Would it have even registered as a front page event?

Soon as I watch the video I'll make up my mind, but till then it's interesting to hear both sides.

[mamoosh.livejournal.com]

Could you imagine every time somebody spoke passionately over a time limit at a comic convention they'd just use a Taser on the geek until he was no longer a threat?

I can dream.

[kingfuraday.livejournal.com]

If you refused to get off the mic at a comic convention and became violent when asked to move you might just get a taz...